Timeline for If my 5yr old is an exceptional liar, should I expect that she will continue lying as she gets older?
Current License: CC BY-SA 3.0
18 events
| when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Oct 8, 2017 at 1:01 | comment | added | barbecue | @8bitwide there's nothing wrong with the logic. "Trust but verify" is a soundbite, not a claim. It's not intended to provide information, it's intended to sound impressive while conveying no actual meaning. Different people provide their own different definitions for the words, and the result is the phrase means what people want it to mean. If you accept the most common definitions, the phrase is an oxymoron, because true trust means there's no need to verify, and to verify means you don't fully trust. It's really just a clever way of saying "pretend to trust, but verify." | |
| Oct 7, 2017 at 6:41 | comment | added | can-ned_food | @MarkRogers There is another usage to that phrase which I heard in the nuclear Navy. I.e. it was saying that you always verify another person's work, even though you trust them to not be dishonest: you are verifying for mistakes of computation or assessment, not outright dishonesty. The optimal, not perfectly possible in fact, was that the dishonest wouldn't be working there anyway. | |
| Oct 6, 2017 at 0:43 | comment | added | Walrus the Cat | @MarkRogers you know it's a Reaganism right? w.r.t. the Soviet Union. It's kind of a colorful way of saying you don't trust someone. | |
| Oct 3, 2017 at 4:19 | comment | added | ESR | I agree with @Pere - the best way for her to learn is for you to not believer her when she is telling the truth,. because of her previous lies. I imagine this would have a strong impact. | |
| Oct 2, 2017 at 22:14 | comment | added | Segfault | "my son rarely lies, probably not because of superior moral fiber, but because he's such a transparently bad liar!" Be careful, this is also the sign of a really great liar :/ | |
| Oct 2, 2017 at 18:36 | comment | added | Chris Sunami | @MrDuk Thanks! I've edited and expanded my answer by just a couple of sentences to emphasize the teaching aspect a bit more. | |
| Oct 2, 2017 at 18:35 | history | edited | Chris Sunami | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
added 158 characters in body
|
| Oct 2, 2017 at 17:29 | comment | added | Cort Ammon | @MarkRogers I think some of the confusion regarding "trust but verify" in our modern society is that we have built a society where we tend to make our decision, and then stick to it. That's rewarded. In reality, we often have to make decisions and then amend them over time. On the short term, trust means you make a decision to act as thought their word is good. Verify means that, as you go along, you are determining whether that initial trust is a good policy. If a kid abuses it too much, the argument may shift to verify first, then trust (and in this case, trust your own observations). | |
| Oct 2, 2017 at 16:11 | history | edited | Chris Sunami | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
added 355 characters in body
|
| Oct 2, 2017 at 9:16 | comment | added | Armfoot | @MarkRogers The concept of "real trust" you are illustrating resembles a lot like "faith" or blind trust in everything. You can trust your cat to eat on time, but you may not trust him not to scratch the fluffy furniture... I believe Chris' point in this answer and 8bitwide comment is simply to show the kid that if the parent finds the kid is lying by verifying, next time (whether it may be a lie or not), the parent should be suspicious and avoid deeming it truthful or giving immediately what the kid asks. The kid may learn later that truthiness is actually preferable and more beneficial. | |
| Oct 1, 2017 at 15:02 | comment | added | 8bitwide | @MarkRogers. I have to disagree with that logic. It's not contradictory to have trust; and to admit the possibility of that trust being misplaced. And it's not contradictory to know that you are more vulnerable because your trust. The rule exist precisely because trust implys you don't feel the need to verify. That doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. I trust my accountant, that doesn't mean I don't read what he puts in front of me to sign. Even though I don't feel the need to, I know it is good practice to do so. | |
| Sep 30, 2017 at 15:59 | comment | added | Mark Rogers | Good answer, though I feel like pointing out that 'trust but verify' is an oximoron. If you verify then you never really had 'trust', the 'trust' itself was just a pretense. Real 'trust' probably means you wouldn't feel the need to 'verify'. Not that I'm saying you should trust or not trust your children. I'm just pointing out the lie that is 'trust but verify'. | |
| Sep 30, 2017 at 15:11 | comment | added | user11394 | @MrDuk Well, you could always just ask for clarification in Joe's answer to find out that, for instance, his technique is what he used and what was effective for his child(ren), as I'd strongly suspect that's the case. | |
| Sep 30, 2017 at 13:54 | comment | added | MrDuk | Though Joe's answer has more votes, I accepted your answer because it offered what I asked for - advice and outcomes from someone who's been there, done that, rather than theoretical philosophy with no clear evidence of success (at least none stated in that answer). | |
| Sep 30, 2017 at 13:51 | vote | accept | MrDuk | ||
| Sep 30, 2017 at 9:37 | comment | added | Pere | +1 "Trust but verify", or just don't trust. And don't forget it, and if she claims to be telling the truth, you can plainly tell her you can't trust her without verifying because of previous lies. That's useful for a 5 years old or for a teenager. | |
| Sep 29, 2017 at 20:11 | history | edited | Chris Sunami | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
added 3 characters in body
|
| Sep 29, 2017 at 16:45 | history | answered | Chris Sunami | CC BY-SA 3.0 |